Governor's Advisory Committee on Chip Mills

Governor's Advisory Committee on Chip Mills
Department of Natural Resources
Elm Street Conference Center
Jefferson City, Missouri
January 4, 1999

Meeting Minutes

Committee Members Present

Stephen Mahfood, Director, Department of Natural Resources
Marvin Brown, State Forester, Department of Conservation
David Bedan, Citizen environmental conservation group, Columbia
Earl Cannon, Deputy Director, Business Expansion and Attraction, Department of Economic Development
Senator Doyle Childers, Reeds Spring
David Day, Private property owner organization representative, Dixon
Mark Garnett, Forest Products Representative, Brandsville
Senator Wayne Goode, St. Louis (via telephone)
Deirdre Hirner, Citizen environmental conservation group, Columbia
Sarah Tyree, Special Assistant, Department of Agriculture

Interested Parties Present

Llona Weiss, Department of Natural Resources
Martha LeMond, Department of Economic Development
Carolyn Barbour, Department of Economic Development
Frank Thompson, United States Forestry Service, Columbia
Steve Shifley, United States Forestry Service, Columbia
Brian Brookshire, Department of Conservation
Alice Geller, Department of Natural Resources
Bill Moore, Canal Chip Corporation, Conway, SC
Terry Finger, House Research
Scott Banbury, Dogwood Alliance, Memphis, TN
Amy Stewart, Memphis Audubon Society, Memphis, TN
Louise McKeel, Village Image, St. Louis
Kirk McFadden
Eric Peters, Missouri Forest Products Assn., Jefferson City
Rick Cantrell, American Forests and Paper Association, Washington, DC
John McCammon, The Nature Conservacy, St. Louis
Bill Bryan, Attorney General's Office
John Dunn, US Environmental Protection Agency, Kansas City, KS
Cecilia Campbell, Department of Natural Resources
Dave Mosby, Department of Natural Resources
Dan Schuette, Department of Natural Resources
Dennis Stinson, Department of Natural Resources
Katie Auman, Dogwood Alliance, St. Louis
Kristen Kordecki, Missouri Heartwood, Columbia
Phoennix Conway, Missouri Heartwood, Columbia
Tom Lange, Department of Natural Resources
Ed Galbraith, Department of Natural Resources

Call to Order

Steve Mahfood of DNR, the committee Co-Chair, called the meeting to order at 10:30 a.m. Mr. Mahfood mentioned that some of the comments from the audience did not get on the tape of the previous meeting, and noted that there would be video tape of this meeting. He also encouraged comments from the public.

Minutes of 11-25-98 meeting

Mr. Mahfood asked if the committee members had reviewed the minutes of the November meeting. After a brief review, Mark Garnett moved to accept the minutes, and Deirdre Hirner seconded the motion. The minutes of the November 25 meeting were approved.

Interim Reply to Governor per Executive Order

Committee members reviewed their copy of the interim reply letter to the Governor. Mr. Mahfood asked if there were any comments. David Bedan had questions on the process for additional funding. Mr. Mahfood replied that the four departments got together and decided that the quickest way to get this done would be to use our own resources. The Governor has also pledged to support the committee.

Presentation on Sustainable Forestry Initiative

The next item was a presentation by Rick Cantrell, a representative of the American Forests and Paper Association. The association promotes sustainable harvesting of timber resources. Some of the highlights of the presentation were: Association was started in 1994, implemented in 1995. There are 200 member companies in the association. The association has done extensive public opinion relationship research. Third party involvement is necessary to the implementation of the sustainable forestry initiative program. The program has received three national awards. The program has an expert independent review panel. Loggers have to pass rigorous training program. There are 100 loggers in Missouri that are in a timber harvesting training program. Getting loggers trained is the best first step. The next step is to get landowners into programs. About 30% of timber harvested comes from company lands, 50-55% from private landowners and 15% from public lands. After the presentation there were questions from the committee and interested parties. A brief discussion followed on the questions and answers. It was mentioned that both Willamette Industries and Canal Chip Corporation belong to the association. Mr. Cantrell offered to make substantial amounts of their information available to the committee.

Legislative Update

Mr. Mahfood mentioned that Senator Goode had not joined the meeting yet by conference call. He continued with the meeting, stating that there is nothing new regarding legislation to report. Interested party - Scott Banbury from the Dogwood Alliance in Memphis TN, informed the committee that Tennessee had a similar panel last year, largely due to citizens being concerned about forestry practices in the state, and there had been an unofficial moratorium placed on legislation being passed while the panel was putting together recommendations, but industry slipped through the cracks. Mr. Mahfood commented that this was good information. Katie Auman also of the Dogwood Alliance, from St. Louis, commented that in Kentucky they have introduced legislation that called for a forest products council, and she would like to know if Missouri was considering anything like that. She also asked if she could submit this information to the committee. Senator Childers mentioned that legislative bills need to be in by the end of January.

Inventory of information/resources

Mr. Mahfood had asked Alice Geller of DNR, a facilitator who works a lot with external groups in DNR, to facilitate a discussion to identify what it is the committee wants to do, and what exactly the executive order is charging the committee to gather and do as far as resources. Alice then discussed the agenda, the ground rules, and the timelines.

The draft of the report on the response to Item 4 of the executive order facilitated by Alice Geller is attached.

Senator Childers stated the first thing the committee should do is to see if there is anything that is urgent, if there is not, they may want to look at the entire scope of the report before they take action. When asked what would be the "drop dead' date for getting all this information organized, Senator Childers replied that if there was any legislation, it would be desirable to have it by sometime in November in order to have time to pre-file by December 1, 1999. Earl Cannon suggested in terms of the first draft, we need to have it done by the September meeting, and then additional work by October, and finalize by the November meeting. Deirdre Hirner commented that the committee should move the date up so at least have draft by August 1. David Bedan - what is your budget date if you were going to incorporate something into the preliminary budget to be reviewed? Mahfood stated recommending to legislation as early as possible. Marvin Brown suggested that at each of the meetings the committee schedules, they should try to deal completely with at least one topic, and then come to agreement on that topic, rather than gathering all the information at once and trying to digest it.

Senator Childers stated that the first item may not be same as last item, then come back to the preliminary draft. Marvin Brown - there will be time at the end to examine all items. Mahfood said the committee needs to get everything out for everyone to look at, and still have time to review and come back to make improvement. Hirner suggested that the committee take issues and assign one or two at each meeting.

Discussion of Item 4 - Regions. Marvin Brown commented that he thought the most useful thing would be to look at trends in wood consumption. Hirner - when you look at trends or areas that have had experience with diverse forest products within the state, is there a report that shows how forest products are used in their state over a period of time. Each of the years show figures, i.e., acreage, land changes, etc. Is there a way that can be done? Marvin Brown asked Rick Cantrell to comment. He stated that regarding experiences in other regions pertaining to operations, timber harvesting data, and consumption by paper mills, the U.S. Forest Service has data that can help. The American Forests and Paper Association representative said they have a first draft of a report that may help. Scott Banbury, of the Dogwood Alliance, said they have a study that may help as well.

Marvin Brown commented that an expert on the subject of legislation will be in Missouri on March 4, he is an expert on what kind of legislation exists in other states.

Mark Garnett stated that he would like to know how other states deal with property rights issues regarding legislation.

Deirdre Hirner asked whether the committee should look at ALL other states, or other states that have same ratio of private property vs public property forestry going on. How do we compare apples with apples? The committee then asked Marvin Brown to shed some light on that issue. Marvin replied that you have to understand that you are dealing with different types of wood. Some states have the softer wood, and some the harder wood. Deirdre Hirner suggested the committee have the professionals define it for them.

Steve Shifley commented that there is a standardized database on all states regarding all kinds of wood for consumption. John Dunn, with U.S. EPA, commented that the committee is looking at three different things; economy, ecology, and world regulations.

Forestry inventories are very important. Mark Garnett asked, where do we look at the environmental impact on harvesting? We need to look at the impact on Missouri and the neighboring states. A discussion followed on the harvesting of forest products.

Senator Childers informed the committee that they should be looking at what is economically feasible to operate chip mills, what are the perimeters in tonnage, and what tonnage is needed to operate. Deirdre Hirner stated that she would like to know, if we are looking at chip mills in Missouri, and we are trying to put our hands on something manageable, is there a reason to look at forestry practices in the Pacific Northwest? Or is the western United States such different forestry than the eastern United States that we can limit the study to the eastern United States? David Bedan said that he would think that following what Mark and Marvin had said, that we primarily would want to look at the southeastern states, and maybe the northern tier of states that have more hardwood.

Alice Geller then asked the committee - on questions of what regions or areas, do they want to define each one, or define on all of them. Marvin Brown stated he was reluctant to eliminate anything that would give the committee some insight. All areas are going to be different. Senator Childers commented that the mapping issue was going to be a very useful tool. Deirdre Hirner commented that she thought the committee was not really going anywhere. They have done nothing to define what they mean by forestry practices. Mr. Mahfood stated that the expectations will be more after the committee gets through all the discussions.

Alice Geller suggested that the committee break for lunch. Deirdre Hirner then asked Alice if she, as facilitator, would stop the members if they get off target, so that they could discuss more important issues.

Lunch Break - 12:30-1:05 p.m.

After lunch break the committee returned to the task of identifying what needs to be done in response to the Executive Order. Senator Goode joined the committee by conference call at 1:10 p.m. Alice Geller informed the senator of what had been discussed to date.

Senator Childers stated that if something is really different in other regions the committee needs to point those differences out. Senator Childers also stated that what the committee should be looking at is feasibility in relation to tonnage.

Deirdre Hirner commented that some chip mills say they will use the "tops" that somebody else cannot use. Also there was discussion of whether chip mills are using something that the pallet people can't use. So it is important that the needs be defined.

A discussion followed on the inventory discussion components. Senator Childers commented that A and B on the discussion agenda were two completely isolated areas, because one is looking at other states, and the other is looking at effect on Missouri.

Deirdre Hirner stated that the local values should be reflected in the amount, otherwise someone might not know what the committee is doing. She also mentioned that it should reflect intrinsic values, i.e., families, individuals, education and human services. Earl Cannon suggested looking at employment, personal income of individuals, state and local tax revenues, overall monetary impact on sales. David Bedan asked if maybe demographics should fit in somewhere.

Mark Garnett said he would like to know, in general areas where chip mills have been operating for some time, what is the economic impact on areas and specifically have the timber resources improved, what has happened over time and what benefits or economic problems are brought to landowners. Would the landowner have an increased market for timber, or a decreased market. Senator Childers stated that a very important issue is to look at what is happening to the business community as a whole. Deirdre Hirner asked if the committee maybe missed some things regarding the alternative land uses that Rick Cantrell pointed out. She asked if Rick Cantrell could restate what he had input on, such as property values, etc. Rick Cantrell said his concern was that the committee needs to look at alternative land uses and the economics of forest land that property owners are looking at right now. Such as low grade materials resulting from years of high grading timber, grazing of cattle, forest fires, etc., and how those things impacted property values.

Proceeding to Item C, Impacts, Mark Garnett stated that he was confused because he didn't know enough about chip mill operations to know what the impact would be. Senator Childers commented on the different grades of forest products, and their relationship to impacts. Mr. Mahfood stated that there are different types of impacts, for instance, there are good soil erosions, and there are bad soil erosions. Management practices are what are going to make the impact. The committee then discussed the development of scenarios describing various business and operational situations.

Marvin Brown suggested what the committee needs to do is go through these scenarios by groups. Information will be coming in before the next meeting, and then decide what meeting they are going to address these items. Discussion took place on how we want this process lead. It was suggested that a preliminary agenda be sent out two weeks before the next meeting. Also what meeting will the committee plan to discuss which items.

Deirdre Hirner posed the question, that assuming current growth levels, how long will it be until the forest resources are gone.

The committee then progressed to Item E, Capability. It was suggested that the committee members make sure that they understand what the inner and outer perimeters are to what they are doing. A discussion followed on (mill) capability.

Discussion was opened on Item G, Long term profitability - private forests. Mark Garnett opened with his thoughts - on the area where chip mills have been for 20 years - has the land value increased or decreased. Senator Childers commented that timber inventory records would probably show a great deal whether land values have changed. This is also where legislation in other states would be important to look at. Senator Goode, who had joined the meeting by conference call, had to leave the committee meeting due to a previous obligation at 3:00 p.m.

Mr. Mahfood suggested that the last item on the agenda for the facilitation (Information Availability) be advanced to the February meeting.

Llona Weiss approached the podium to address the meeting regarding information for February meeting. Interested parties should send their resource information to her at DNR, so the information may be distributed and studied at the next meeting. She also reminded the public to make sure they are on the mailing list, so that they can get information beforehand. It was mentioned that a preliminary agenda will be sent out two weeks before the next meeting, and thus Llona Weiss needs any items people want on the agenda by January 15. The committee requested an annotated bibliography of key reports and reference materials.

Mr. Mahfood informed the committee and public that all the suggestions and comments will be transcribed and distributed to interested parties and members.

Other important comments during the morning and afternoon facilitated session include the following:

Regarding legislation and regulation pertaining to harvesting of timber, it was mentioned there was a study done in Minnesota covering this topic very well and includes legislation in all states. The Conservation Federation of Missouri has a copy of the Minnesota study. It was mentioned we need to look at states similar to Missouri such as Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas and northwest Louisiana but that limited data is available. It was also mentioned that California has had considerable experience related to legislation impacting the harvesting of timber and we should consider this as well.

Brian Brookshire said that MDC has good data on Missouri since 1946 that would be available.

Regarding the impact of chip mills, it was mentioned that the committee needs to look at regions most similar to Missouri and what is operationally feasible. Since there has not been a lot of experience in Missouri or the region similar, some suggested we really need to look at states where chip mills have operated for many years and assess the impacts there on things such as water quality and wildlife habitat.

Dave Mosby of DNR, said that Pioneer Forest, a large privately owned forest in the state, has a lot of information that may be helpful.

Regarding what is good and what is bad, someone stated it really depends on management practices and we need to get down to the landscape level and assess several scenarios to develop the data we need.

Steve Mahfood said he knows the Missouri Division of Tourism is very interested in our study because of potential impacts on tourism.

Rick Cantrell, of the American Forests and Paper Association said that tourism impacts were addressed in a Minnesota study and Minnesota has a model.

It was mentioned that a worthwhile objective would be to help landowners raise higher quality saw timber and that chip mills could be a market for the timber thinned from a stand of timber to increase the quality of the stand. Someone mentioned this could be an area for future legislation to encourage making the smaller timber available to chip mills and that Louisiana has enacted legislation, but the legislation does not exactly address this purpose. Bill Moore, of Canal Wood, said it would be great if chip mills could get this smaller timber resulting from the thinning process. He further stated that the timber used by chip mills essentially has no value as standing timber, but that the purchase of this timber adds value and it stays in the community. He further stated that saw log material can't be used in a chip mill for so doing will lose money for the mill.

David Bedan then stated, the key question is-- what are chip mills taking in timber size and what can chip mills afford to use?

Kirk McFadden, a commercial pilot, offered the committee his services for flying over the state to view its timber resources.

Study/Budget/Funding issues

Marvin Brown and Steve Mahfood suggested that an individual outside of the four agencies be appointed to oversee the facilitation for the committee. A lengthy discussion followed relating to just what this person would be doing, and who would be a good person to do this project. An interested party from the audience addressed the committee regarding the issue of why the committee is discussing hiring someone to pull all the information together, when they were appointed to do the research. Marvin Brown explained that the appointment of the committee doesn't mean that the committee cannot hire someone to help them with the information gathering. Mark Garnett responded that he was worried the committee would be spending too much money on a facilitator. Members of the committee were asked to send their suggestions on this subject to Llona Weiss.

Public Comment

Mahfood suggested that public comments be sent to Llona Weiss by the 15th of January for the next meeting. There were several announcements from the public of conferences and upcoming events of interest to all attendees. There is a conference March 4th and 5th at the University of Missouri in Columbia entitled Sustainable Forests on Private Lands. Another event is Pioneer Forests to be held January 13th at St. Louis Zoo at 7 p.m.

Kristin Kordecki commented during the meeting and sent written comments as follows:

"I want the committee to take into account the non-compliance corporations such as Willamette, Canal and G-P have had in other states in the past. Willamette specifically has had many fines issued to them because they violated what are essentially DNR permits. I also would like the committee to take into consideration the number of lawsuits companies and their chip mills have filed against them in other states."

Dates of Future Meetings

The next meeting of the committee is Monday, February 1, 1999 at the same site. Sarah Tyree told the committee the DNR meeting room has been reserved for the committee meetings the first Monday of every month. Llona Weiss thanked the Department of Economic Development for hosting the meeting. Mr. Mahfood asked if there was any other business to be brought before the committee. There was no other business, and the meeting was adjourned at 4 p.m.